Did America Lose the Vietnam War?
June 7, 2009 - Posted in Vietnam Vacation
This question was asked four weeks ago, but I wanted to put a different spin on it. </h>
The reason I ask is because I am going on vacation to Vietnam in the fall, staying in the same city my Grandfather was stationed in as a Marine during the war: Saigon, now Ho Chi Minh City. America normalized relations with Vietnam nearly 10 years ago, and from what I understand, now they have a booming economy, expanding tourism, and an excellent trade relationship with the us. With capitalism comes Democratic reforms as we have seen slowly come about in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. Despite whether or not we won militarily is beside the point. Aren't we ultimately achieving the goal we wanted to achive during the war, but with capitalism instead of bombs?
What do you think?
hyungbinkim: Is it "equivocation and denial" to ask is one means of creating demoracy is better than another? I think you misunderstood the question.
It's really an interesting question. What you are describing of course is the "doi moi" policies instituted by the Vietnamese leadership back in the 80s, I believe, and that really took off in the 90s. But you should be careful about the "booming" aspect of these policies. It is booming….for some. Thus, .Inequality has worsened in vietnam and I have read studies where the caloric intake of the poor has gone down…many people rely on state industries and government largesse, which are being pared down by these policies.
You are right that the US may not have achieved it's maximal goal of militarily conquering the Vietnamese resistance and instituting a pliant government, but it in fact DID win the war by leaving the "communist" rulers with a country that was devasted, the countryside was destroyed, a veritable moonscape…millions killed (the US says 2 million, the vietnamese say 4 million) and then we continued to devastate them by blocking world bank aid, supporting the 1979 chinese invasion of vietnam etc etc…lessons that scared other peoples from adopting a form of government opposed to the US and insuring that the Vietnamese would come groveling on their knees for western support, on our terms (capitalist terms, of course) …being their only chance of survival esp after the fall of the USSR…
How much does a vacation to Vietnam Cost?
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24 Responses to “Did America Lose the Vietnam War?”
yes we lost and bailed the hell out of there
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no invading force ever won a war on there soil
By jason c on Jun 7, 2009
I smell equivocation and denial
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By hyungbinkim on Jun 7, 2009
America has not been allowed to win a war since World War ll or since we dropped the bomb killing untold thousands.
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By Terrie on Jun 7, 2009
it wasnt a war it was a military action
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By BajaRick on Jun 7, 2009
tactically yes, but the guerrilla style warfare beat us.
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By sdchargers5921 on Jun 7, 2009
You probably couldn't convince Jane Fonda of that.
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By #1con on Jun 7, 2009
It was less about Vietnam itself and more about "containing the evils of communism" and as I see there is no more USSR I would say the US won.
Granted, we have Cuba and North Korea, but I think capitalism has a firm lead.
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By jon s on Jun 7, 2009
We won the Vietnam war there is no record of the U.S forces losing a battle. The war we lost was against our own people. But yes capitalism did win out in the long run against communism.
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By Seth C on Jun 7, 2009
Yes, senate democrats cut funding in 1974. Hundreds of thousands of S. Koreans paid the ultimate price for it.
30 years later, capitalism has reached them.
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By Pancakes on Jun 7, 2009
The military didn't lose the war congress did.
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By Sarge on Jun 7, 2009
America LEFT VietNam because it was not economical to stay. USA Govt. bled the country, the corp. pockets were lined, there was nothing else to do but die or keep dieing.
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By Nick on Jun 7, 2009
There were no winners in the vietnam war. America decided to tkae its loses and just leave.
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By DeeLee on Jun 7, 2009
Well, the USSR officially changed its name to Russia.
Aside from the name change, there is very little victory, elsewhere.
Sometimes, we get into wars, and the first thing to change is the rationale for going in (once the truth comes out), then we change our objective (once reality crowds in on our arrogance), then we come up with reasons to break away and, call it a victory for some obscure, remotely plausible reason that had nothing to do with anything resembling the original premise that the war was based, fought, or ended on.
Our version of reality is very fragile. Our egos are even more fragile.
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By tiredofit on Jun 7, 2009
Technically, we tied. There was a peace agreement.
In reality, the U.S. military never lost a battle in the field with operational units larger than a company. But congress tied the hands of the military by limiting targets. President Johnson, not to be outdone by congress, then tried to micro-manage the military action by making military decisions down to a company level. It was politics and how to lose a war, at it's finest.
Have a good time in Saigon. Take plenty of condoms…no glove, no love…you'll find out.
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By chuck n toss on Jun 7, 2009
Depends on how you look at it. Overall, Vietnam was a lost war as the public turned against it when it seemed that our military could never achieve a knockout blow. However, it should be noted, that our military never suffered a defeat in the field. The Vietnamese Tet Offensive failed spectacularly in their objectives as the only place where they achieved any degree of success was at Hue, but even there the North Vietnamese were driven out. Vietnam is a confusing war where the army won every battle, but lost the war.
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By Sam N on Jun 7, 2009
It's really an interesting question. What you are describing of course is the "doi moi" policies instituted by the Vietnamese leadership back in the 80s, I believe, and that really took off in the 90s. But you should be careful about the "booming" aspect of these policies. It is booming….for some. Thus, .Inequality has worsened in vietnam and I have read studies where the caloric intake of the poor has gone down…many people rely on state industries and government largesse, which are being pared down by these policies.
You are right that the US may not have achieved it's maximal goal of militarily conquering the Vietnamese resistance and instituting a pliant government, but it in fact DID win the war by leaving the "communist" rulers with a country that was devasted, the countryside was destroyed, a veritable moonscape…millions killed (the US says 2 million, the vietnamese say 4 million) and then we continued to devastate them by blocking world bank aid, supporting the 1979 chinese invasion of vietnam etc etc…lessons that scared other peoples from adopting a form of government opposed to the US and insuring that the Vietnamese would come groveling on their knees for western support, on our terms (capitalist terms, of course) …being their only chance of survival esp after the fall of the USSR…
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By choseunghuisghost on Jun 7, 2009
Our goal was to keep the communists out, we didn't do it.
We had no right being there.
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By Nort on Jun 7, 2009
The Americans lost the Vietnam war, that's for sure.
There were there because some political clowns in the US were worried about the Domino Theory.
Allowing communism to spread to South Vietnam was unthinkable. So USA's clowns sent in the troops to fight on unfamiliar terrain and enemy. Even used chemical warfare "Agent Orange" but still failed to battle the fighting spirit of the Vietnamese. USA lost, and totally pulled out from a third world country embarassed.
Again, Vietnam's prosperity today is the desire of the Vietnamese, and let me tell tou this. They are extremely hardworking people who will go out of the way to achieve their personal & national dreams, aspirations and desires. They have done it so far a great deal by themselves and some help from neighbouring countries and communist nations like China & Russia. The only country that the US can claim credit for their current economic performance, after ravaging it in a war is Japan. Please count how many countries the US has waged war and ravaged against.
I hope after George Bush, the sad clown, the people of America will stand up and speak just like Jane Fonda and thousands of other anti-war activists in the states.
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By yeesang on Jun 7, 2009
as much as i hate to say it – Yes, we lost the Vietnam War. it's true congress never declared a state of war on North Vietnam, and was therefore a Presidential 'Police Action'. As American's we hate to admit we lost anything, but we did there, not on the battlefield but here at home. Capitalism did not beat communism, communism is simply doomed to fail eventually wherever it is, for it is economically unsound. A country's government cannot control all facets of it's peoples lives, evenly, because it forces poverty on the people to make them equal. The country of South Vietnam was dissolved into Vietnam by the North (as you know Saigon is no longer named Saigon). Militarily, we didn't lose the war, politically we did, and therefore withdrew in 1975 before we could complete our mission.
and "yessang", Jane Fonda referred to my uncle as a baby-killing sadist and was glad he was tortured and killed as a P.O.W. in Hanoi, along with other U.S. Military personnel..to be against war morally is fine, but to hope people will be like that (that is, THEY are completely full of hate) is just proving what is wrong with the world today.
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myself (WO-1 Matt Dennis U.S. Army)
By disarm_kilocrash on Jun 7, 2009
….never in the battle field, but big time in the halls of Washighton, Nam could have been won if the military have been let loose!
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me military vet
By Krytox1a on Jun 7, 2009
no we were kicking ass we left because the liberal hippies cut the funding of the war
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By mike b on Jun 7, 2009
General Dung's Great Spring Victory was supported by a total of 700 (maneuverable) Soviet tanks, i.e. Soviet armor, burning Soviet gas and firing Soviet ammunition. By comparison, the South Vietnamese had only 352 US supplied tanks and they were committed to guarding the entire country, and because of US Congressional action, were critically short of fuel, ammo and spare parts with which to support those tanks. Ironically neither the US forces or the Viet Cong were present. We sent them to see Budda and returned home as ordered. If not ordered to do so, we would still be there. And you are correct: Our ideals beat them.
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USMC Vietnam 65-66. 67-68.
By Ken M on Jun 7, 2009
America eventually withdrew from Vietnam in 1973. From 1974 onwards the Vietnamese government stood against the communists w/ U.S. aid. Later the coomunists sent in a major offensive towards Saigon.And won.
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By Xenadil on Jun 7, 2009
No no no! We LEFT Vietnam!!!
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By Adam C on Jun 7, 2009